Blood borders

[Administrator]

International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899

[salloum_kr]

I think that changes of border in the middle east will be a good idea to end these long-term wars.
what the rrticle is saying is good idea, but i don't think that middle east shoul be devided according to religious causes, becuase the feeling of nationhood will be lost, and that will affect the kurds, since we have many religous sections. so i see to redraw the middle east according to national rights is much better than religious.
Concerning the map, the map of kurdistan here is wrong, since it show that kurdistan streches from diyarbekir to tabriz. kurdistan streches from meletî, mara$, Sêwa, erzurum, erzincan, to lake urmiye, then south to kirmanshan and loristan. so kurdistan is not like it is shown in the map here. and even tabriz is not a kurdish city, it's completly azeri. another thing is that kurdistan has no border with the black see. but it has with the medditerain see, at the border of iskenderun city.
As a conclusion, i don't see the map and the article as a real study, becuase it's out of scientific and logoc. it's just words to tickle the feeling of suffering peole in the middle east.

[Roy-A]

The idea all feels right. Local population would love to; western hearts are with it... What else are we waiting for? When do we get brave and courageous enough to break this taboo? Not to forget that all those dictators ruling the Middle East are created and supported by westerners; and they fall as soon as this support is lost. So who should we blame it on; or should I say: who must start the wave?

[bahadir]

<b> TurcoPundit (http://turcopundit.blogspot.com) </b>-

Peters fell in love with his own imagination and on the way lost his sense of proportion and sense of the practical, if he ever had them in the beginning.

These countries are not legos which you can cut and paste, whatever the artificiality of the foundation of some them. In the last 80 years (three-four generations) they have gained a legitimacy of some kind. This legitimacy does not extend to most of the regimes of course but still you cannot deconstruct them without rivers of blood. And even if you manage to redraw the borders as Peters like, how can he assure us that they will be stable?

<b> TurcoPundit (http://turcopundit.blogspot.com) </b>-

[BayAreaFan]

Kudos to the author for tackling the bull by the horn.

Some more comments about Pakistan. Since her formation, Pakistan has been dominated by the Punjabis who pretty much run the country. There are several Pakistanis who have written about this. Any restructuring of Pakistan has to take care of the following:

1. Independent Sindh (Sindhudesh): Sindhis have little in common and want an independent nation. The Jiye Sindh (Jiye = Let Live) movement was one of the more visible movements. Here is an excellent article by a Pakistani born academic, Prof. Gul Agha who is a well-respected professors at one of the top graduate programs in Computer Science in the US (birthplace of Netscape).

Should Pakistan be broken up (http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html)

2. There are parts of the ertswhile kingdom of Jammu&Kashmir which are not part of Kashmir but are called Centrally Administered Northern Areas, North of Pakistani Occupied Kashmir; Gilgit and Baltistan are two major regions. The people here are Shia and have been rebelling against the Sunni dominated Punjabis for half a century. While suppressing a Shia rebellion in these Northern Areas in 1988 the then SSG Officer Musharraf first worked with Osama bin Laden.

Gen. Parvez Musharraf: His past and present (http://www.stratmag.com/issue2July-1/page06.htm)


These areas do not have much in common with the Afghan and should be independent.
Balawaristan National Front (http://www.balawaristan.net/english.htm)

So the map of Pakistan should have:
Balochistan, Sindudesh, Independent Northern Areas (Balwaristan) & Panjab. NWFP will become a part of Afghanistan, making the Durand line redundant.

[seralin]

I am completely stunned by the views of the author. Dividing countries just because they can be controllable in an easier way is one of the least humanistic approaches I have ever seen. Considering the amount of bloodsheds that it might cause in the future, I am sorry to say this, but, it can even be compared to reduce at the level of terrorists (angel-faced terrorists, to be honest).

When the population of Latin American citizens in the southern states will exceed the population of White Americans, and when those states wish to join with Mexico or become independent countries, are you really going to wave your hands in a peaceful way? Or if other countries start sending forces to help those states in their decisions, are you going to swallow that decision with good will? I really don't think so.

If United States had "helped" those countries develop rather than keeping (or forcing) them under the dictate of people like Saddam (just because they were supporting US), none of those problems would have happened in the first place. You want to solve problems by creating more problems. It will not solve problems, it will only increase the amount of problems. Is this really that difficult to see or you prefer not to see at all?

And a note to the author, since he is completely "unaware" of the conditions in Turkey: there is no suppression in Turkey on Kurds that is bigger than what the Spanish people have on Catalans. Just a simple reminder, we have never had any kind of (race based) discrimination in Turkey that is similar to what US had in its history. Any Kurdish person who doesn't use his race to obtain privileges has never been considered as a foreigner. I'd like to remind you only two names who are of Kurdish origin and become the two most important leaders in Turkey after Ataturk, Ismet Inonu and Turgut Ozal. To your knowledge again, the majority of the Kurdish people in Turkey, which you claim to live under the suppression of Turkish army forces, supports obtaining priviliges that will lead to freedom with less than 30%. The results of the democratic elections in Turkey (which is proved to be so by the European observers, again to your knowledge) showed that. The majority of the Kurdish population in Turkey consider themselves as Turkish people (or in a way you like Kurdish-origined Turks). Both races are highly intertwinded with each other, that throughout the history, the Kurds that moved to the western regions of Turkey had started to consider themselves as of Turkish-origined, whereas the middle-asian origined Turks who lived in the eastern regions had started to consider themselves as of Kurdish -origined. You can find highly reliable sources that can prove that.

[Nutuk]

<!--
What a bullshit article, the author uses either cocaine or heroine giving him delirious dreams hahahahaha
-->

Instead of his map I see the forming of the Otoman empire II more realistic

[turkiye]

this is the real map .. we are the best nationalist country in the world ..

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/ottoman-empire-1580.gif



have a question ?

[Çotanak]

Haydi bakalım ne planmış bu görelim.
sizin atalarınız da buna benzer bi planla gelmişlerdi, sonları malum.

Tarih tekerrürden ibaretmiş

uyan Türk evladı uyan, 30 kupona alınmadı bu vatan.

[SIRAT]

The idea all feels right. Local population would love to; western hearts are with it... What else are we waiting for? When do we get brave and courageous enough to break this taboo? Not to forget that all those dictators ruling the Middle East are created and supported by westerners; and they fall as soon as this support is lost. So who should we blame it on; or should I say: who must start the wave?
YOU WİLL NEVER CHANGE THIS WORLD İS OURS WE ARE TURKS

[SIRAT]

Helal Olsun Sana Çotanak Bu Vatan Bizimdir Bu Gok Çatimiz Bu Yer De DoŞeĞİmİzdİr Bizim

[ABDULDASHAKBINYARRAK]

This map is demographically wrong. I know this because i visited those areas.

I think, despite hating turks, they seem right here.

For example, in iran, persians are %45 of total population. Turks has %47 of total poulation. If you wanna divide persia u must give turks much more land.By the way turkomans, azeris, kazakhs are all turks, turk is not a specific name to the ones living in anatolia. They all speak same language and can understand each other easily. The all call themselves turk.

[hb27tr]

Sevres Treaty couldn't split up Anatolia and create those puppet states for Western use. Now so called West is coming with another project. They are bound to defeat, because you cannot achieve anything despite the local people. You can buy and run governments, MPs, mayors, etc., but you cannot buy the people. Therefore this map is not going further than a wishful thinking for Anatolia. Turks gained this land with their blood, and will not give up until they lose all their blood.

[veljean]

It is supposed to be a philosophy behind any policy. Unfortunately this idea(!) is an excellent example of a policy-without-philosophy. Let me ask you guys: frankly what happens if US has a long term economic recession and GDP per capita becomes $1500, unemployment rate rises up to 30 percent? What would be the result? A clash of states, a clash of ethnicities, a clash among religous groups may be?

The point that I couldn't understdand is to discuss adjustment of borders instead to close the huge economic gap between the west and "the others". Who can dare to accept fair share of goods among countries?

We create monsters like Saddam, bin Laden, Ocalan to destabilize our allies(!) or to fight against our enemies then try to reshape the region for middle east countries for their good(or should I say for ours?).
What an irony!

[SKYWOLF]

Turks And Kurds Are Brother Sİnce Old Tİmes.emperialısts Saİd That I'll Brİng Peace And Freedom. But You Had Brİng Blood And Tear.
We Turks Will Gİve Permission To Divide Our Country. The Hİstory Will Be To Repeat.it'll To Come To Naugth Plays Of Emperials. The Victory Will Be Our And Peace.

[thalassamavri]

I am disappointed by the author's lack of knowledge of ethnicities and relationships, and above all basic geography. If all ethnicities are to have their separate states, then there should be at least 200 countries in the region.

A Kurdish coastline in the Black Sea for example. There are only a couple of thousand Kurds in the Black Sea region of Turkey - originally landed there by forced immigration in the 1920-30's to dilute the Kurdish regions and settled into emptied Pontian Greek villages. But their numbers are far less than the ex-Soviet republic prostitutes in the Black Sea region. If we were to pile up all Turks in the area and force them out, there are still hundreds of thousands of Pontian Greeks, Laz, Mingrels, Hemshin Armenians to deal with who all outnumber local Kurds.

And I don't see a good explanation as to why poor Russian and other ex-Soviet immigrant sex workers do not deserve a small country?

[hinag]

Complete nonsense, I suggest author to drink petrolium, instead of H2O.

[canorsal]

no one, nothing, that includes the god you believe in, cannot change the borders of THE REPUBLIC OF TURKIYE, we are well prepared to fight for our land and our freedom than any other nation on earth. if you think you can change maps this easily, bring it on...lets see what you've got

[zinduar]

Dear Peters,

You have said in your article that "as would the long-suffering Kurds of Turkey, who have endured decades of violent military oppression...". One can be easily seen that you don't know anything about life of people(Turks, Kurds and others) in Turkey. Therefore, it is really ridiculous that this article has been written by one who know nothing what he wrote. The map which is drawn by you is insult me and all Turks. If you have a bit of courage, come on Turkey and show me this map in here.

Yes, I am Turk and sure that you are foe of Turks and humanity. I dont anymore care about people like you, because the things like you cannot be human. Shame on you Ralph!!!

The losers are not the countries like that Afghanistan ,Iran ,Iraq ,Israel ,Kuwait ,Pakistan, Qatar,Saudi Arabia,Syria,Turkey,United Arab Emirates, West Bank . there is a one LOSER who are YOU!

[zinduar]

Complete nonsense, I suggest author to drink petrolium, instead of H2O.

Yeah :) Republic of Iraq's free petroleum

[turk]

will be divided in to 2. New York will be given to racist, killer whites. All other states will be given to sufferer BLACKS. Lets do it! hahaha you stupids.

[Alpertunga]

Turks are not like any other pseudo-nations of Middle East. We are a real strong nation of warriors... Even your dreams can not be enough to imagine how a Turks border can be drawn if a Turk wants to draw a border. Think twice before talking about Turks.

[sumbas]

Congratulations to US Army!
Ralph Peters was retired before becoming a general.
Better late than never!
How did he ever manage rise to become a colonel with all those eccentric if not crackpot opinions!

[Alpertunga]

Keep on dreaming

[icigsar]

salloum_kr says that
"the map of kurdistan here is wrong, since it show that kurdistan streches from diyarbekir to tabriz. kurdistan streches from meletî, mara$, Sêwa, erzurum, erzincan, to lake urmiye, then south to kirmanshan and loristan, not Blacksea, must stretc to Iskenderun".

I say that Turkey's border must stretch to Musul, Kerkuk, Tebriz, because all of these cities are Turks!!!

[scioto]

As one of the forumers wrote it, these countries are not legos to play with.

If you are sincere about your plan and really think that it is workable, start with your own homeland and prove it it's possible.

It would be wise to start with giving the south of California and Texas to Mexico ,for example. The tip of Florida could go to Cuba. Parts of Montana, Wyoming and Dakotas could go to a Free Land of Original Settlers. Wisconsin could handle a Free German State of North America. New York should be an independent city state governed by UN.

Can you guys go for more?

[icigsar]

"International borders are never completely just." This real for USA.
Not duty of USA to redrawn of borders of states and building new states in the Middle East or anywhere in the world. In the history especially Great Britain has drawn the borders in according to "divide and govern", now it is not fitting to USA which some countries are too big to govern, want to divide into too small countries to govern them easily. But there are some countries as "steel bullet", like Turkey, trying to occupy it with trick, and using Kurdish people agains to Turkey. But in history, when an empire reached to a peak and started sliping down, attacking to right and to left to extend their life. Redrawn of borders only give pain to USA people and the world people.

[diyako]

The Kurds are the world’s biggest nation without a state. They have been settled in Kurdistan since 2400 BC. The treaty of Severs in 1920 made provision for the creation of an independent Kurdistan, but this later was altered by the 1923 Lozan Treaty. Since then, “their homeland [has been] divided principally between four countries: Turkey (20.08 million), Iran (10.5 million), Iraq (4.6 million) and Syria (1 million).”(1) There are nearly a million Kurds living in former Soviet states and almost three-quarters of a million in the European countries and the USA, most of them having left Kurdistan for political reasons. Their language is an Indo-European one, with three main written dialects: Kurmanji, Sorani, and Zazai. The majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslims – although those within East Kurdistan (Iran) are chiefly Shi'a Muslim – others being Sunni Dervish, Kakayi, Yazidi, which is a branch of Zoroastrianism, and Jewish. There are approximately 200,000 Kurdish Jews living in Israel. The Kurds in East Kurdistan (iranian occupied)set up an independent state in 1946 which lasted only a few months.

[diyako]

TO all Turkish friend in the forum!!1

You Turks are really dumb and out knowledge, go learn a bit about history from all different perspective then you guys, then come talk to me,. Kurdish nation was there long time before Mongolian(Turks) arrived from north of china,, Kurd have never accepted anything, since its foundation there has never been voluntary union in betweens Turks and Kurds up to now. Always has been force, assimilation mass killing nothing else!!, every thing since Turkish republic foundation until now has been lies and misleading, go read about Turkish history in different perspective not just from Ataturk’s schools!!
I also have a lot good Turkish friend and I regret for my language, you propaganda machine put you in imaginary thinking, everyone in this forums know you Turks sensitivity in Kurdish issues is clear of desperation and hopelessness, because Kurdish nation is rising once again, why you guys here tell me!! If your country so secure so democratic, why you barking like dogs!! What is scaring you!!!…

The important things is all you talk about ottoman, empire this and that who proud, is totally paranoid , it is imaginary things, there is no question , that there was a ottoman empire with multi confederation which was include Kurdistan, even in ottoman empire maps(not the one made up after republic) you can see clearly Kurdistan, and whole Kurdistan was running by Kurdish governor as same like Greeks, Arabs states, under ottoman rules, all this governors’ had right to succeed after war world one, only Kurdistan remain with Mustafa kemal betrayal and replacing Lozan agreement with server in 1923. Now.

let not fool ourselves, the Kurdish question is international arena and is now concerns world community, you all know that very well, you fools here barking!!!, your little turkey never can handle that any longer. So I guess if you guys have little brains you will understand, what I am talking about!!
Now clearly for forum, and American peoples is great asset to professionally analysis things, you Turks seen losing controls bring everything from every corners and mixing them up.
Non of you Turks in this forum understand the problem that you country facing, of course you all saying is some Kurdish terrorist and we kill them all , and we heard that , it been 85 years you guys doing that, have you finished, there is still 25 millions left. So kill them all proud yourself!!!

So my advice to Turks, read history and conflicts’ clearly, in every side, with all different perspective, analysis thing objectively, put you emotional away. Because is your weakness it shows you losing which s mean you have been wrong all the way , to understand well, and be objectives, this place is not about heroism, because that time is over, you guys been watching too much Turkish TV, The Learning mechanism has changed, , adopt yourself to new world, it will bring good for Turks, learn tolerance, make sure knowing something before talking about!!
Open your eyes Turkish friends, every one knows enough who Kurds are, is shame for you , that you don’t know that is bring no good your country men at all.

[icigsar]

[QUOTE=diyako] “their homeland [has been] divided principally between four countries: Turkey (20.08 million), Iran (10.5 million), Iraq (4.6 million) and Syria (1 million)"
Turkish people are minority in Turkey, is it true mr diyako? Everybody knows that Kurdih population is %12 in Turkey, that is to say 8.7 million. Seven years ago a journal published by PKK members, Özgür Politika, which published in Turkish, because there is no readers in Kurdish, said that 25 million Kurdish are living in Turkey!!! After 7 years, where is 4.92 million Kurdish ? I think your population falling down, ha ha ha!!!

[icigsar]

[QUOTE=diyako] “their homeland [has been] divided principally between four countries: Turkey (20.08 million), Iran (10.5 million), Iraq (4.6 million) and Syria (1 million)"
Turkish people are minority in Turkey, is it true mr diyako? Everybody knows that Kurdish population is %12 in Turkey, that is to say 8.7 million. Seven years years ago, a journal Özgür Politika, published by PKK militans, published in Turkish, they do not know Kurdish, said that 25 million Kurdish are living in Turkey!!! Now you say 20.08 million!!! I think your population going down!!! Where are the 4.92 million Kurds? Do not blame Turkish people as a killer of Kurds like Armenian did. I think your counter is not working properly, or counting their shadow as a man!!!

[icigsar]

[QUOTE=diyako] says that "the Kurds in East Kurdistan (iranian occupied)set up an independent state in 1946 which lasted only a few months"? I want to ask who created this state from Diyako? A man who knows a little history, no Kurds, but Soviets. Kurds are never owned a state in history!!!
FREE KURDISTAN WILL BE ESTABLISHED BY USA LIKE FREE IRAQ!!!

[cengizkhan]

International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.
The most arbitrary and distorted borders in the world are in N. America and some other parts of the world. Drawn by self-interested main stream Americans N. America’s borders continue to provoke the deaths of millions of local inhabitants. But the unjust borders in the N. America — to borrow from last century — generate more trouble than can be consumed locally.
While the N. America has far more problems than dysfunctional borders alone — from cultural stagnation through scandalous inequality to deadly religious extremism — the greatest taboo in striving to understand the region's comprehensive failure isn't religion but the awful-but-sacrosanct international boundaries worshipped by main stream Americans.
Of course, no adjustment of borders, however draconian, could make every minority in the N. America happy. In some instances, ethnic and religious groups live intermingled and have intermarried. Elsewhere, reunions based on blood or belief might not prove quite as joyous as their current proponents expect.
Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works, such as Native American genocide, the genocide against the all people of the continent.

Who knows whose borders will change!

In near future, in 10-30 years, borders of N. America will change probably.

The reasons of this estimate are follows:
- Rich minority, poor majority
- Genocide against native Americans and uprising movement of native Americans,
- Social, cultural and ethnic differences and no equality among these,
- Rising black population and rising black human rights and equality movements,
- Social classes and treatment of second, third ….. class citizens (Anglo-Saxons and Jewish rich people treated as first class citizens and main stream Americans; Germans, French, Netherlanders, Swedish, … some other European origin people treated as second class citizens; Latin, Italian, Russian, east European, Japanese and some other people treated as third class citizens; Black Americans, Native Americans and some other people treated as last class citizens, ……)
- Rising movements of white nationalist Americans against federal system,
- Apartheid of black Americans (Even no American president is black or among from other classes, all American presidents are from main stream Americans, but blacks represent America in sports and music, however not enough representation in Senate and assembly …..)
- Cultural differences of local areas,
- Demanding more rights, more authority and independency for states,
- Lots of minorities, in ethnicity, in religion, in culture …….
- Religious movements such as Moon,
- State and country borders been draw by ruler,
…………
As a result of these reasons, in 10-30 years N. America would look below:
- An independent French state in Louisiana area,
- A black free state in Georgia area, another one in north, another one in west,
- Lots of city states, in particular New York,
- 5-10 independent territories or free states for native Americans,
- Two Latin free state or independent territory in California area and Florida area,
- A Chinese independent territory in California area,
- Independent areas of white American nationalists,
- More authority and freedom for the rest of the states,
- Independent territories for religious movements, sects, religious orders, a religious city state in Salt Lake City for Mormons.
- An independent territory in Pennsylvania for Amish people
- Compensation of genocide against native Americans,
- ……..
- So on …. So on …..

WINNERS AND LOSERS:

Losers: Main stream Americans
Winners: All Others

Who knows whose borders will change!

(Note: I wrote in 10 minutes, Users of the forum may add maps, other estimates …..)

by CENGIZ KHAN

[cengizkhan]

International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference &mdash; often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899

This article is more realistic:

Blood borders: How a better World, in Particular N. America, would look

International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.
The most arbitrary and distorted borders in the world are in N. America and some other parts of the world. Drawn by self-interested main stream Americans N. America’s borders continue to provoke the deaths of millions of local inhabitants. But the unjust borders in the N. America — to borrow from last century — generate more trouble than can be consumed locally.
While the N. America has far more problems than dysfunctional borders alone — from cultural stagnation through scandalous inequality to deadly religious extremism — the greatest taboo in striving to understand the region's comprehensive failure isn't religion but the awful-but-sacrosanct international boundaries worshipped by main stream Americans.
Of course, no adjustment of borders, however draconian, could make every minority in the N. America happy. In some instances, ethnic and religious groups live intermingled and have intermarried. Elsewhere, reunions based on blood or belief might not prove quite as joyous as their current proponents expect.
Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works, such as Native American genocide, the genocide against the all people of the continent.

Who knows whose borders will change!

In near future, in 10-30 years, borders of N. America will change probably.

The reasons of this estimate are follows:
- Rich minority, poor majority
- Genocide against native Americans and uprising movement of native Americans,
- Social, cultural and ethnic differences and no equality among these,
- Rising black population and rising black human rights and equality movements,
- Social classes and treatment of second, third ….. class citizens (Anglo-Saxons and Jewish rich people treated as first class citizens and main stream Americans; Germans, French, Netherlanders, Swedish, … some other European origin people treated as second class citizens; Latin, Italian, Russian, east European, Japanese and some other people treated as third class citizens; Black Americans, Native Americans and some other people treated as last class citizens, ……)
- Rising movements of white nationalist Americans against federal system,
- Apartheid of black Americans (Even no American president is black or among from other classes, all American presidents are from main stream Americans, but blacks represent America in sports and music, however not enough representation in Senate and assembly …..)
- Cultural differences of local areas,
- Demanding more rights, more authority and independency for states,
- Lots of minorities, in ethnicity, in religion, in culture …….
- Religious movements such as Moon,
- State and country borders been draw by ruler,
…………
As a result of these reasons, in 10-30 years N. America would look below:
- An independent French state in Louisiana area,
- A black free state in Georgia area, another one in north, another one in west,
- Lots of city states, in particular New York,
- 5-10 independent territories or free states for native Americans,
- Two Latin free state or independent territory in California area and Florida area,
- A Chinese independent territory in California area,
- Independent areas of white American nationalists,
- More authority and freedom for the rest of the states,
- Independent territories for religious movements, sects, religious orders, a religious city state in Salt Lake City for Mormons.
- An independent territory in Pennsylvania for Amish people
- Compensation of genocide against native Americans,
- ……..
- So on …. So on …..

WINNERS AND LOSERS:

Losers: Main stream Americans
Winners: All Others

Who knows whose borders will change!

(Note: I wrote in 10 minutes, Users of the forum may add maps, other estimates …..)

by CENGIZ KHAN

[zinduar]

Kurds can be establish their states. We do not opposite to this. But it cannot be in and/or near of the borders of the Turkey. We will not permit this. Stick it into your brains you there idiots! This is not mean that we don't like Kurds. They are our brothers, vice versa. We are living with them for hundred years. There have been and will be many betrayers in each country. All terrorists such as PKK are not human. As result, a one, who is not human, cannot and will not get a homeland.

And Hey Peters, you will terminate one day like meaning of your name ( peter : diminish and come to a stop; give out, expire ).

[CEYHUN]

Every problem that are today facing in this world originate from WHITE CHRISTIANS of the WESTERN COUNTRIES. Racism only in exists in the WESTERN WORLD. GENOCIDE exists in the WESTERN WORLD. Even in the center of EUROPE, look at BOSNIA HERZOGOVINA. Look in the past what happened in SPAIN to the Muslims. Exploitation of people happened in the WESTERN WORLD. Blacks traded as slaves. Poverty of AFRICA is a direct result of the WESTS intermingling. Where are the NATIVE people of THE CURRENT CONTINENT OF AMERICA.
WHY DO WE NOT REDRAW THE MAP OF EUROPE? WHY ARE THE ALBANIANS DIVIDED? Because they are MUSLIMS. Ehtnic Cleansing is a genetic code that probably is inherent to the WESTERN WORLD CHRISTIANS. There is no other nation in the world that supports such a thought even if it does it really is influneced by the WEST.
Why do we not talk of the GENOCIDE going on in some parts OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION TOWORDS THE MUSLIMS?
Why do we not talk of GENOCIDE the ARMENIANS inflicted on the TURKS and AZERI'S with the WESTERN HELP?

HAVEN'T THE ARABS BEEN HUMILIATED ENOUGH FROM THE WESTERN WORLD? WHEN WILL THE WEST STOP FINANCING THESE WESTERN PUPPETS?

HAVEN'T THE WEST BRAIN WASHED THEM ENOUGH TOWARDS THE TURKS...TURKS ALWAYS TREATED THEM AS HUMANS BUT THEIR WESTERN LORDS TREAT THEM AS CARBAGE....IS THAT WESTERN DEMOCRACY?

DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ IS RAPING AND KILLING? PLEASE STOP TALKING BULLSHIT NO ONE BELIEVES YOU ANYMORE!!!!

PLEASE WHEN YOU TALK PLEASE COME WITH SOMETHING THAT IS GOOD TO HUMANITY AND PLEASE TRY TO BE HUMAN AND NOT DEVILISH...THE WORLD HAS SUFFERED A LOT FROM YOUR KIND OF PEOPLE.

I THINK THE WORLD NEEDS A SECOND IMPROVED OTTOMAN EMPIRE ONLY THAN THE WORLD WILL BE FREE.

[protector]

i have only one question (and may be the answer?)

who will be the greatest winner of this plan (an doesn't listet in der winners list) ????

the USA ???

Have yue ever asked youreself the question, what the ameican nation did with the "negro's" ore better with the indians ??

If the turkish people were interested in killing any complete ethnic group they have had neough time (for more then 500 years) .

The USA must stop thinking they were the best and the greatest a.s.o.
They must respect all the nations in his world this is the first step to make this world a better place for live...

[KurdsBeMUSLIM]

TO all Turkish friend in the forum!!1

""You Turks are really dumb and out knowledge"", ,


You can not accuse a nation's all people of being dump. You can accuse some but not all. If you dont disagree with people on
one point you can be the wrong side too if you are not somebody like Einstein who has a great percentage of telling truth.


go learn a bit about history from all different perspective
then you guys, then come talk to me,. Kurdish
nation was there long time before Mongolian(Turks) arrived from north of china,

Allright Einstein, which nation was living in those lands when you came there? Where are they now? Mass killin? Lies? Vandalism?
By the way who are sumerians? Hittites? What happened to them? What are sumerians origin?
Einstein why dont we delete word "mongolian" and call them "Turk" but not mongolian, won't it be easier?
Can it be because they are Mongolian but not turk?
Okay using this logic, Russians (turks) are from central asia, does it have a nice place in your logic?

Kurd have never accepted anything, since its foundation there has never been
voluntary union in betweens Turks and Kurds up to now. Always has been force,
assimilation mass killing nothing else!!, every thing since Turkish republic foundation
until now has been lies and misleading, go read about Turkish history in different perspective
not just from Ataturk’s schools!!



Well you think that,
As you know Ottoman Empire was a Turkish Empire.Despite your relation with turks depending on before, lets accept this as
your first relation with turks.Record it as 1.truth.
And could there be a problem with another's propaganda machine? Who is telling truth?


also have a lot good Turkish friend and I regret for my language,
you propaganda machine put you in imaginary thinking, everyone in this
forums know you Turks sensitivity in Kurdish issues is clear of desperation
and hopelessness, because Kurdish nation is rising once again, why you guys
here tell me!! If your country so secure so democratic, why you barking like dogs!! What is scaring you!!!…


Nice acting, by saying "i have turkish friends" you want to hide your racist feelings towards turks. Okay not racist, kurdish Einstein
are you telling your ideas/feelings to your turkish friends? By the way why do you regret for your language? Did turks put a post in your house
for not to learn kurdish from your family?Or is it true that Kurdish Language Courses are closed after 1 months because
of holy kurdish nation's apathy?
And by the way do you know anything about the most democratic country's, US's, sensitivity on terorism, are they barking like dogs?
What is scaring them or are they really scaring? i dont think US nor Turks afraid, game is different. And why kurds are
helping barking us while kurds that has a jew leader? are being used against muslims? Is the game related with religion or sth else?


The important things is all you talk about ottoman, empire
this and that who proud, is totally paranoid , it is imaginary things,
there is no question , that there was a ottoman empire with multi
confederation which was include Kurdistan, even in ottoman empire maps
(not the one made up after republic) you can see clearly Kurdistan, and
whole Kurdistan was running by Kurdish governor as same like Greeks, Arabs
states, under ottoman rules, all this governors’ had right to succeed after
war world one, only Kurdistan remain with Mustafa kemal betrayal and replacing
Lozan agreement with server in 1923. Now.


Okay do you remember the file we named 1.truth? Nice i knew you would remember einsteinlaxender the great.

Which kind of an empire is that? After mass killing lets a kurdish governor? An Empire who can defeate crusaders while including
only turkish soldiers cant kill all kurds? An army who could not find any army in europe to fight at Kanuni's time?Et devlet-i Turkiya, memluke sultane, that has only turkish soldiers civil servants but mixed muslim, non muslim citizens
only could defeat mongolians could not kill kurds nor others?. Were turks only problem non muslims? or racism? or repect? is it still going on?
Cant turks kill all kurds where they see them? Who cares other countries? 7 country supported greeks against them what happened?Were not there enough time after lozan?
Do you know kurd ministers in Ottoman Empire, in todays turkey, even presidents?
Ottoman was the only solution to muslim world.
Wasnt it true that 2% of turkish army's casualties in anotolia were kurds?
700 people? While in Trakia, under invasion, was 4000 soldiers?

Can you be under somebody others propaganda machine?


let not fool ourselves, the Kurdish question is international arena and
is now concerns world community, you all know that very well, you fools here barking!!!, your
little turkey never can handle that any longer. So I guess if you guys have little brains you
will understand, what I am talking about!!
Now clearly for forum, and American peoples is great asset to professionally
analysis things, you Turks seen losing controls bring everything from every corners and mixing them up.
Non of you Turks in this forum understand the problem that you country facing,
of course you all saying is some Kurdish terrorist and we kill them all , and we heard that ,
it been 85 years you guys doing that, have you finished, there is still 25 millions left.
So kill them all proud yourself!!!

So dont foool yurself. Kurds are being used against muslim world.And they are barking with drinking blood of muslims as
allways some do


So my advice to Turks, read history and conflicts’ clearly,
in every side, with all different perspective, analysis thing objectively,
put you emotional away. Because is your weakness it shows you losing which
s mean you have been wrong all the way , to understand well, and be objectives,
this place is not about heroism, because that time is over, you guys been watching
too much Turkish TV, The Learning mechanism has changed, , adopt yourself to new world,
it will bring good for Turks, learn tolerance, make sure knowing something before talking about!!
Open your eyes Turkish friends, every one knows enough who Kurds are, is shame for you ,
that you don’t know that is bring no good your country men at all.


May advice for you is "be muslim and learn a bit about history from all different perspectives"

You are a lucky racist i dont talk with em.
http://www.pkkgercegi.net/unutulanfotograflar/default.htm

terrorists are killing my Kurdish brothers for seperation.

http://www.pkkgercegi.net/unutulanfotograflar/bolum1/images/1987012412.jpg

SAME IN IRAQ

SOLUTION IS RESPECT TO ALL HUMANKIND WITHOUT ANY RELIGIONAL OR RACIST SEPERATION

[Hamid]

Nasser Bani Assad, spokesman for the British Ahwazi Friendship Society (BAFS), said: "Ralph Peters understands the problems caused by the arbitrary carve-up of the Middle East by European colonial powers and the continuing impact that has on regional stability. But this is an academic exercise, not a practical solution to the demands of ethnic minority groups in the Middle East. He gives no indication as to how such a radical adjustment of national borders would be achieved. It is unlikely that Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran would willingly relinquish oil-rich territory and strategic access to the Gulf for an independent Arab Shia state, defined along confessional lines. The only way to achieve such a redrawing of territories is by force, creating more problems than the exercise would solve.

"Another issue is whether this proposal is what minorities actually want. Ahwazis have never argued for a unification with Arabs of the Saudi province of Al Hudud ash Shamaliyah, as Peters has proposed. Peters assumes that Arab Shias are homogenous and are defined by religion. But tribal identity plays an important role in the lives of rural Ahwazis, while urban Ahwazis are largely secular in their political outlook and cosmopolitan in their tastes. A Shia theocracy run by Ayatollah Sistani would be unpalatable for a people who define themselves by their culture rather than their religion. Ahwazis will not want to replace rule by an Iranian Shia theocracy with an Iraqi religious elite based in Najaf. Moreover, the Arab Shia state proposed by Peters would ensure that Ahwazis remain a minority in a state that is two-thirds Iraqi. His map is therefore just as arbitrary as the borders devised by the British, taking little account of the distinctiveness and ambitions of the Ahwazis or other minority groups.

"There are more practical political solutions to ethnic grievances than a redrawing of borders, no matter how unjust the present ones are. Some ethnic groups would simply be happy for the right to organise their own parties, run their own media, the right to be educated in their own language and the devolution of power. For the Ahwazis, ethnic concerns could be met through the redistribution of a significant portion of income generated by their homeland's resources and a reversal of the land confiscation programme that has forced them off their land.

"All these demands pose no threat to Iran's territorial integrity, but it is clear that they cannot be met under the present regime, which has ruthlessly persecuted minorities and banned any attempts at peaceful political mobilisation.

"The task for Ahwazis and other minority groups in Iran is to make minority rights a part of the struggle for democracy and human rights in Iran. This is what the Congress of Nationalities for a Federal Iran is trying to achieve. It is the responsibility of the international community to support such grass-roots initiatives, rather than imposing solutions based on academic exercises."

http://www.ahwaz.org.uk/2006/07/military-expert-proposes-redrawing.html

[Wise Dervish]

I also agree that the author is delirious. He could be a good fiction writer, nothing else... I wonder if the delusional author had any research at all. I suggest the author should stick with the fiction where he seems more successful. The accurate map should be as following:

http://www.uark.edu/depts/globmark/middeastmap.jpg

[Wise Dervish]

Somebody lost touch with reality! Get real! Even though I am a Turk, my family have a number of Kurdish members. Kurds are part of Turkish republic. You asked the questions where they are here is your answer: "They are in Turkey, part of Turkish society". People like you who have never lived in Turkey and heard stories about biased people think that Kurds were distroyed. Meanwhile, you are telling that you have have Turkish friends. I am sure that you did not share these with them. I am sure that they would tell you how delutional you are. Once again back to my point: GET REAL.



""You Turks are really dumb and out knowledge"", ,


You can not accuse a nation's all people of being dump. You can accuse some but not all. If you dont disagree with people on
one point you can be the wrong side too if you are not somebody like Einstein who has a great percentage of telling truth.




Allright Einstein, which nation was living in those lands when you came there? Where are they now? Mass killin? Lies? Vandalism?
By the way who are sumerians? Hittites? What happened to them? What are sumerians origin?
Einstein why dont we delete word "mongolian" and call them "Turk" but not mongolian, won't it be easier?
Can it be because they are Mongolian but not turk?
Okay using this logic, Russians (turks) are from central asia, does it have a nice place in your logic?





Well you think that,
As you know Ottoman Empire was a Turkish Empire.Despite your relation with turks depending on before, lets accept this as
your first relation with turks.Record it as 1.truth.
And could there be a problem with another's propaganda machine? Who is telling truth?





Nice acting, by saying "i have turkish friends" you want to hide your racist feelings towards turks. Okay not racist, kurdish Einstein
are you telling your ideas/feelings to your turkish friends? By the way why do you regret for your language? Did turks put a post in your house
for not to learn kurdish from your family?Or is it true that Kurdish Language Courses are closed after 1 months because
of holy kurdish nation's apathy?
And by the way do you know anything about the most democratic country's, US's, sensitivity on terorism, are they barking like dogs?
What is scaring them or are they really scaring? i dont think US nor Turks afraid, game is different. And why kurds are
helping barking us while kurds that has a jew leader? are being used against muslims? Is the game related with religion or sth else?





Okay do you remember the file we named 1.truth? Nice i knew you would remember einsteinlaxender the great.

Which kind of an empire is that? After mass killing lets a kurdish governor? An Empire who can defeate crusaders while including
only turkish soldiers cant kill all kurds? An army who could not find any army in europe to fight at Kanuni's time?Et devlet-i Turkiya, memluke sultane, that has only turkish soldiers civil servants but mixed muslim, non muslim citizens
only could defeat mongolians could not kill kurds nor others?. Were turks only problem non muslims? or racism? or repect? is it still going on?
Cant turks kill all kurds where they see them? Who cares other countries? 7 country supported greeks against them what happened?Were not there enough time after lozan?
Do you know kurd ministers in Ottoman Empire, in todays turkey, even presidents?
Ottoman was the only solution to muslim world.
Wasnt it true that 2% of turkish army's casualties in anotolia were kurds?
700 people? While in Trakia, under invasion, was 4000 soldiers?

Can you be under somebody others propaganda machine?




So dont foool yurself. Kurds are being used against muslim world.And they are barking with drinking blood of muslims as
allways some do





May advice for you is "be muslim and learn a bit about history from all different perspectives"

You are a lucky racist i dont talk with em.
http://www.pkkgercegi.net/unutulanfotograflar/default.htm

terrorists are killing my Kurdish brothers for seperation.

http://www.pkkgercegi.net/unutulanfotograflar/bolum1/images/1987012412.jpg

SAME IN IRAQ

SOLUTION IS RESPECT TO ALL HUMANKIND WITHOUT ANY RELIGIONAL OR RACIST SEPERATION

[Wise Dervish]

Somebody lost touch with reality! Get real! Even though I am a Turk, my family have a number of Kurdish members. Kurds are part of Turkish republic. You asked the questions where they are here is your answer: "They are in Turkey, part of Turkish society". People like you who have never lived in Turkey and heard stories about biased people think that Kurds were distroyed. Meanwhile, you are telling that you have have Turkish friends. I am sure that you did not share these with them. I am sure that they would tell you how delutional you are. Once again back to my point: GET REAL.


TO all Turkish friend in the forum!!1

You Turks are really dumb and out knowledge, go learn a bit about history from all different perspective then you guys, then come talk to me,. Kurdish nation was there long time before Mongolian(Turks) arrived from north of china,, Kurd have never accepted anything, since its foundation there has never been voluntary union in betweens Turks and Kurds up to now. Always has been force, assimilation mass killing nothing else!!, every thing since Turkish republic foundation until now has been lies and misleading, go read about Turkish history in different perspective not just from Ataturk’s schools!!
I also have a lot good Turkish friend and I regret for my language, you propaganda machine put you in imaginary thinking, everyone in this forums know you Turks sensitivity in Kurdish issues is clear of desperation and hopelessness, because Kurdish nation is rising once again, why you guys here tell me!! If your country so secure so democratic, why you barking like dogs!! What is scaring you!!!…

The important things is all you talk about ottoman, empire this and that who proud, is totally paranoid , it is imaginary things, there is no question , that there was a ottoman empire with multi confederation which was include Kurdistan, even in ottoman empire maps(not the one made up after republic) you can see clearly Kurdistan, and whole Kurdistan was running by Kurdish governor as same like Greeks, Arabs states, under ottoman rules, all this governors’ had right to succeed after war world one, only Kurdistan remain with Mustafa kemal betrayal and replacing Lozan agreement with server in 1923. Now.

let not fool ourselves, the Kurdish question is international arena and is now concerns world community, you all know that very well, you fools here barking!!!, your little turkey never can handle that any longer. So I guess if you guys have little brains you will understand, what I am talking about!!
Now clearly for forum, and American peoples is great asset to professionally analysis things, you Turks seen losing controls bring everything from every corners and mixing them up.
Non of you Turks in this forum understand the problem that you country facing, of course you all saying is some Kurdish terrorist and we kill them all , and we heard that , it been 85 years you guys doing that, have you finished, there is still 25 millions left. So kill them all proud yourself!!!

So my advice to Turks, read history and conflicts’ clearly, in every side, with all different perspective, analysis thing objectively, put you emotional away. Because is your weakness it shows you losing which s mean you have been wrong all the way , to understand well, and be objectives, this place is not about heroism, because that time is over, you guys been watching too much Turkish TV, The Learning mechanism has changed, , adopt yourself to new world, it will bring good for Turks, learn tolerance, make sure knowing something before talking about!!
Open your eyes Turkish friends, every one knows enough who Kurds are, is shame for you , that you don’t know that is bring no good your country men at all.

[bezgin]

I am a Turkish citizen. We've been member of Nato for 50 years now. We shed our blood for US' stupid war in Korea 1950's. Our soldiers were in the first row to be killed. We were with them in Kosovo, in Bosnia, in Afghanistan, we were the safety zone for them during Cold War years. For what cause? And it all came to this it seems.


Hey think-tanks, advisors, defence consultants! Let me advise you something. Stick your plans in your Great Middle East Project in your ...
We are not Iraqis, we won't be Iranians or Syrians. Independence is a national sport In Turkey. You won't finnd a single man to assist you with your visions. We shed blood for 1000 years, we are ready to do so for another thousand.


Best regards.

[tolon]

This article reflects ignorance, greed, hypocrisy, bias, and a bit of megalomania. There are two ways to approach this article. The first would be the informative way, so I will try that:

I would advise the author to read a lot more about Woodrow Wilson and the First World War before he starts writing about this region. Find out about US involvement in setting up these borders before suggesting a change. These borders, particularly that between Iran and Turkey, has been stable for centuries. An attempt to change would be bloody indeed.

The article is racist, has a religious bias, and is confused. It reminds me of an old book “The Clash of civilizations” by Huntington which should be read by all to see how biased and misleading racist approaches are, as history has shown clearly since this book was published. A bit of information: In a recent poll for a candidate for the next presidential elections in Turkey Hikmet Çetin turned out to be the by far the most popular. Hikmet Çetin is of Kurdish origin. So a simple question to the author is: How many of the Kurds living in Turkey does he think would want to leave Turkey for a bloody plan like this? How many of the Kurds in Iran?

We are fast moving into a new era of internationalism but the author wants to sail back into Middle Ages. Isn’t this all because of an “addiction to oil,” as even President G.W Bush correctly diagnosed in his last State of the Union speech?

The second approach is simpler: I advise the author to look carefully at the USA if he is so interested in bloody ghosts and Middle Ages and nationalist, racist, or religious ideas:
The US should return California and Texas and parts of New Mexico to Mexico. Maybe the U.S. should be divided into several countries on the basis of each state’s population of African Americans, Hispanics, and others? How about carving a small free Chinese state out of part of New York?

I am truly astonished that the US Armed Forces would print something like this. I suggest that the journal should also print the opinions of such “crusaders” as the “Ku Klux Klan.”

Kind regards,

Dr M. Tolon

[alfasilin]

I feel sorrow seeing this map. It is a real pain knowing or "friend" US even does not hasitate exhibiting its bloddy plans about Turkey. The map is beneficial for only US but the people living in this regions. It divides the most strong country, Turkey, in the region and puts a distance between the Turk nations. It also divides other countries into manageable regions. If you pump hatred into this countries, none of them will combine their forces against US.. The map is nothing but that..

The author did not tell the cost of the map. Is there a calculation about any nation's loss? How many Turkish population need to be killed to support this map? How many of Kurdish? How many of others?

I can say you about the Turkish: Until none of them left..

In the first Iraque attack of US, I saw that event most coward Turkish people were eager to die when they were called for duty. After many 50 years of being friend with US, they influenced our culture. But it was interesting for me to see the patrioticity in their blood was left.

When a Turkish man goes to that region to fight agains PKK, he never hasitates to sucrifice him self. We love to die in the War. No one can understand what "love to die" means until he/she is agains the Turkish nation in the war.

This is not a threatening. Knowing what we are, seeing that map, millions of dead bodies of my Turkish and Kurdish friends at the battle field came into view in my mind.

For what? For psudo borders forced by US..

[alfasilin]

I am also sure that US forces knows it is impossible to support this map. But by publishing it, and by giving hope to the minority that it may be done, will be enough. It will create in minorities vision that they are minority and they have to have their "freedom" even they have freedom. If you give weapon to that person, you will have a soldier for your aim without cost of men.. This is really inexpensive way of having an army.

The pity thing is the east part of the Turkey is really poor and this part is supported by the taxes on the west part. West pay for east's electricity, food and healthcare costs. Any Turkish doctor, teacher or other government official has to spend their first 3-4 years in east part to serve these people. If any of east people decline doing that, she will be fired off. A doctor spends 6-10 years to have his licence. If she says that "no, I don't want to go east to serve", she will be fired that they, and her licence is canceled. Can you imagine?

Yes, these people are poor. But this is their joice. No one is forcing or preventing them from being reach. We build them fabric. They destroyed the fabrics. We gave them lands to farm, they sold the lands to their "agha"s.

We have done and will do whatever we can to make these region rich. But it seems that it will be a very long way to do that. And if they split up from Turkey, they even cannot have electricity and water. I am not mentioning the doctor and other government officials to take care of these people..

[Hamid]

Some issues with Lt Col Peters' map:
1. Why is Tabriz considered a Kurdish city, when it is mostly populated by Azeri Turks? Even the Kurds do not claim Tabriz is Kurdish!
2. Why are the Assyrians of Iraq, who claim Kirkuk as their city, not considered worthy of a separate state?
3. Why are Arab Shias considered homogenous, when the Arab Shias of Saudi and the Arab Shias of Ahwaz have little in common other than religion and Arabic (different dialects) - are Canadians and Americans the same people because they are mostly Christian, white-skinned and English-speaking?
4. Why are Kuwait's borders maintained, when everyone knows that Kuwait is an invention of the British?
5. Why is Lt Col Peters reluctant to deal with the most important ethnic issue in the Middle East, the Palestinian issue, and instead puts it down as "unsolved in our lifetimes"? He states "For Israel to have any hope of living in reasonable peace with its neighbors, it will have to return to its pre-1967 borders" - why 1967 and not 1948, what would happen to Palestinian refugees, what about a peace process? Why is Baghdad made a city-state and not Jerusalem? The Palestinian issue is far more likely to be solved peacefully than the issue of Kurdish autonomy - only if the Americans stopped arming and subsidising Israel!
6. Another major issue is Kashmir, which is mostly Muslim. Lt Col Peters is dividing up all these countries according to religion and tribe, but he has not thought about Kashmir.
7. Chechnya and Ingushetia are also not dealt with, although their problems are far worse than Ngorny-Karabakh!
8. Why extend Jordan into Saudi? It makes more sense to give the West Bank back to Jordan, which is 70% Palestinian.
9. What is the "Saudi homelands"? The Al-Saud is a tribal family, the most powerful in the kingdom. Much of its power is due to the control of the pilgrim sites. What is the Al-Saud without Makkah and Medina?
10. Lt Col Peters states "the point of this exercise is not to draw maps as we would like them but as local populations would prefer them". What contact has he had with minorities in the Middle East?
11. How does Lt Col Peters envisage these changes coming about?
12. What kinds of governments does he want running these countries?

Minority issues can be dealt with easily if democracy and human rights were practiced. A lot of ethnic unrest is due to a lack of basic rights mixed with poverty. Instead of splitting up states, Lt Col Peters would be better off putting his energies into supporting grass-roots movements supporting basic rights for minorities, economic development and campaigning against corruption and militarism. No-one can put the clock back, but we can make the Middle East a more tolerable place to live.

[seozer]

United States had such a positive reputation in Turkey. People in Turkey, who have become somewhat desensitized to terrorism’s shocking intrusion in their civilian life cried with the world in the tragedy of 911. They hoped that their friend and ally, United States, the beacon of multi-ethnic, multi religious tolerance, freedom, and democracy would pay closer attention to radical Islam and its devastating actions around the world. Then came the war in Iraq and pessimists in Turkey gained the upper hand as they pointed to the border and cried foul and characterized United States as an imperialist power. Books such as “Metal Storm” sold over 500,000 copies in Turkey.
The Ralph Peters article is very disturbing, and as a Turkish American, I am deeply concerned about the negative impact it is going to generate in Turkey’s citizens’ minds. Every newspaper in Turkey has featured Mr. Peters’ article on their front page, and characterized it as infamy. The article supports the anti-American view in Turkey, which claims that the United States has grand plans in the Middle East for oil, and that these plans include dismemberment of the Republic of Turkey.
I hope that the Armed Forces Journal can be more discriminate in deciding the types of articles it features, and refrains from printing articles which harm the reputation United States in Turkey.

[nahhh]

Come on guys dont dream that much. Türkiye is different at ALL. Forget numbers, statics, strategies etc.. it is the people who lives in this glorious land. You cant even imagine if you do not live in here. So I need to repeat that; How happy is he who can say ‘I am a Turk’’

You may call it as racist saying but it is not. You dont need to born Turk. Just say I'm Turk and you'll be okay! =)

Cheers

[sardar]

with my somking english...
my old oppa told me sardar usa did a big ---- i said oh oppa whats wrong with u ? but we love usa they are not doing ----,after a quite time. oppa >>young u got me wrong.( how oppa )?! oppa >>> befor usa finish afganistan and iraq they must finish the central of tirorisim and that central is iran if not usa will lose the tirorisim war.so after a bloody war between uas and tirorism in afganistan and iraq i have seen that usa have lose the war .to finish a fashism rigim in iraq and afganistan usa did not lost any soldat but after that 2 rigim usa have lost about 2000 soldat and tirorism is still runing means usa is not the winer !!!becuase a radickal and fashisim rigim is still alive in iran they must be finish! they are exactly like tirorism organistion company they are mading tirorist and send to iraq and afganistan .oh he made and send other one kill and look but so is not the end of problem! any way after 2 years i went back to home to our home to kurdistan! first person that i saw was my oppa my intelligent oppa ( oh oppa ur right usa did ---- iran must be first i belive in u ,ur a strong politiker man am proud of u ,after some seconds i told him oppa usa did any new shit ? oppa >>> sardar lets drink tee usa looking for a good sleep in United States and to have a good sleep in United States usa must to change the middle east borders !
by sardar star
serdar_star_info@yahoo.de

[sardar]

with my somking english...
my old oppa told me sardar usa did a big ---- i said oh oppa whats wrong with u ? but we love usa they are not doing ----,after a quite time. oppa >>young u got me wrong.( how oppa )?! oppa >>> befor usa finish afganistan and iraq they must finish the central of tirorisim and that central is iran if not usa will lose the tirorisim war.so after a bloody war between uas and tirorism in afganistan and iraq i have seen that usa have lose the war .to finish a fashism rigim in iraq and afganistan usa did not lost any soldat but after that 2 rigim usa have lost about 2000 soldat and tirorism is still runing means usa is not the winer !!!becuase a radickal and fashisim rigim is still alive in iran they must be finish! they are exactly like tirorism organistion company they are mading tirorist and send to iraq and afganistan .oh he made and send other one kill and look but so is not the end of problem! any way after 2 years i went back to home to our home to kurdistan! first person that i saw was my oppa my intelligent oppa ( oh oppa ur right usa did ---- iran must be first i belive in u ,ur a strong politiker man am proud of u ,after some seconds i told him oppa usa did any new shit ? oppa >>> sardar lets drink tee usa looking for a good sleep in United States and to have a good sleep in United States usa must to change the middle east borders !
by sardar star
serdar_star_info@yahoo.de

[sardar]

to have a good sleep in United States usa must to change the middle east borderes .....no way turkia must give up hahahah

[d_n]

It is unfortunate that such a superficial "analysis" has been made and more unfortunate that it is being published. It is clear that the author does not have the level of depth to make any suggestions on this matter. It is best that it is either placed into the humor section or better into the garbage.

If I have to point out some of the fatal flaws in the logic and "analysis":
- The borders that are being proposed has several implicit assumptions that whole of Kurdish origined populations in Turkey and other countries are looking for independence. (wrong assumption). In reality very small minority that backs up armed terrorist campaign is looking for that and others are just an integral piece of the society that they live in.
- The areas that are proposed as "new countries" or regions do not have the majority of the people that are proposed to carry the supremacy. So, the analysis lacks any real data backing. If the sole purpose is to determine the majority of the population and assign accordingly, the author should expect Turkey's borders to extend to further east and north-east to integrate good portion of Iran and even towards north-west to integrate minorities within Bulgaria and/or in Greece.
- Numbers used in the so called analysis are grossly inflated.
- Kurdish group is described as a single group of people, almost like uniform. In reality there are different groups of people. A simple differentiator is the different "dialect" that each of them uses. The dialect separates each of these groups in addition to other variables. Somes of these dialects are so far apart that they do not understand what each other is saying. Some other variables that can be counted are alphabet differences, historical and cultural differences and ties etc.
- The experiment that is being done in Northen Iraq cannot stand on its feet as a "region" let alone any state or any other entity. Without the string-holders, the experiment is doomed to fail right away. The question is, what is the reason to try to develop something that cannot sustain by itself. Isn't this a fundamental conflict with rules of evolution and even with principles of free economy ?
- The Kurdish group that is proposed to carry a big role is based on tribal governance and mediocre system, let alone any bit of democracy. If one doubts that, he/she should check for the blood relationship between individuals in the leadership of the N.Iraq region.
USA has the mission to establish democracy in Iraq in the post-war era. Giving a role to another group of ruthless rulers such as Barzani clan is completely opposite to the mission and doomed to fail. More power to the dictatorship means just more bad news.
- Many of the countries in the region have been formed after centuries of progression. Some countries such as Kuwait, Jordan, Saudi Arabia etc may have some arbitrary borders, but that does not mean that countries like Turkey, Iran and others are in the same situation. In fact the latter group always hard earned their position. This is what separetes them from the former which had their borders drawn by the imperialists in the beginning of the century. In fact by proposing another example of that, author just repeats the mistake and advocates for a bigger one !!
- Author also does not have a clue about the powers of the region and/or the fundamental characteristics of particular nations. Dividing Iraq or any desert other country may be not so hard considering their (limited) resources and geographical disadvantages. Throughout the history of the region Greeks, Persians, Ottomans, Egyptians and others just captured the named countries with great ease and ruled for long periods.
However major actors of the region such as Turks, Persians have not been suppressed, dominated or lost their homelands. These nations are characterized with independence and remained that way for thousands of years. So, such plans are doomed to fail and it is very misleading to think everyone the same in the region. There are distinct characteristics that separate independent minded people from others. There are major players who will always lead the game and others who will be lead. Turkey is surely one of the regional leaders and sustained winners.
- Turkey has fought and will always fight against such intrusions against its soil. It is very naive of the author to expect that it will allow its land to be taken by some tribes and/or puppet regimes. This can be said for some others in the region too.
- Author also missed the fact that Turkey is a leading democracy and a major NATO member. It is surprising that this happened considering his background !! It is very disappointing to see such mediocre proposals to take away major portions of such a key country and NATO member.

I can continue on writing many other reasons on why the article is a pipe dream at best, it is not just worth spending my time. I recommend this article is placed to where it belongs; the garbage !! I also recommend the author to start doing some real analysis.

[aegeancommonground]

i am dissapointed by the level of the comments this article received. i would like to remind my fellow turks and the kurds that this article is about an important issue. the kurdish problem will be a serious setback for turkey unless we find a solution. on the other hand i feel that the analysis and the conclusions of the author are rather superficial. in turkey the kurdish nationalism and the seperatist feelings are strong in the southeast corner of the country and most of the kurds outside this triangle would opt to live as part of the democratic and progressing turkish republic rather than a largely tribal kurdish state.

[yavuz ozalp]

i have been a ny post reader(peter is a columnist) for a long time .peter has a hard on toward the turkish people .i wonder ...my grand father was a playboy during his peak times.maybe his grand mother knew him.peter is a lobbyist for armenians as well as some kurdish organizations.if he admits the truth it ll be understanding.let me give you a little info about turkey and turks.turk do not stab anyone in the back.kurds did it ,arabs did it and some lobbyist americans are trying as well.remember the korean war??? peter please ask around you ll find a korean war wets .ask them about how the turks save the americans ass.we may not have good enough weapons but we fight allway to end .people like yourself should know that anyone thinks otherwise making a big mistake.stop looking only on 1 side of the coin.your ancestors made somany friends as well as enemys.instead of talking about bullshit genocide or people been suppressed lets talk about what your pass.american indians or maybe african americans.am i mistaken or those unfortunate things happened in the USA or middle east....take care your own problems.worry about your own people .first your own then others.you still have prejudices people all over the south.you must be from the south.you and anybody else with the same wiew should understand we the turkish people do not have problems with anyone .people like yourself have a problem with us.and as a register voter i will never vote for someone that has the same wiews like yours.by the way did you find any w m d is in friggin iraq.kill the bastard and get our troops out of there .THOSE SHOULD BE YOUR MAIN CONCERN.YOU CALL YOUSELF A MILITARY MEN.mILITARY MAN ARE HONEST .THEY DONT BULLSHIT LIKE YOU DO. sincerely

[IranianGirl]

I want some of what ever this Peter dude is smoking !!

Interesting that the author claims the issue of the Jerusalem that is sacred to 3 religions cannot be solved in his lifetime but suggest "Mecca & Media, that no one is complaining about it being in control of Saudis and is only sacred to Muslims, being controlled by a "rotating council representative of the world's major Muslim Schools "!!!

And since he is so bright in solving the whole continent’s problem, how come in his map the status of West Bank and the Palestinians is still undermined?!!

He forgot to mention that only winner is Israel, since all it will create is a perpetual war to keep the whole region busy until their oil money runs out while Israel can sit pretty! Even US is not a winner in this scenario , since poor American tax payers have to do some heavy lifting to create these borders .

And for all my Kurdish brothers and sisters that think the supper powers gives damn about them beyond using them and shedding their blood to serve their own interest , you should read :

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0591/9105008.htm

[ilhan ari]

dear follow turks,

Do not get exited and plse do not turn this into a chat you do while playing the backgammon. These are the ideas of a rather free roaming retired colonel and not necessarily of the government of USA.

In the present one state hegemony situation it is clear that USA plans to use firstly an independent Kurdistan and secondly Afganistan as military bases to control the middle east and beyond. So their present strategy is to create an independent Kurdistan. How big this new state should be? I think it would be enough for our American friends just to have the Iraqi Kurdistan plus Kirkuk so that Americans do not need to support the Kurds financially. Of course our American friends are known to be quick to turn around their feet and they might betray the hapless Kurds once again, say with a new president in the office.

One word of caution for our American friends if they feel like tinkering with Turkey, I would like to remind them a Roman proverb. "Quos Deus vult perdere, preus dementat." , "When the Gods want to destroy someone, they first take his mind away!"

[falcon]

I'm sorry, i would like to write my message in my language.

Sevgili Albayımızın ve benzerlerinin Güney Amerika'da yapmış oldukları sözde demokrasi girişimlerini gayet iyi biliyoruz. Bu başarılı diktatörlük yönetimleri sonucunda ölen binlerce insanı görmezden gelmek için kör olmak gerekir. Siz dünyanın hangi bölgesine gerçekten demokrasi ve insan hakları getirdiniz de biz bu başarılı hümanist akımlarınızı görmezden geldik. Dünyanın heryerinde gözyaşlarının ve acıların sorumlusu durumundasınız. Güya Homo Sapiens türünün en gelişmiş ırkı olarak kendinizi görüyorsunuz. Siz bu dünya için gerçek bir virüssünüz ve kurmuş olduğunuz ekonomik sistemde sizin bilgisayarınız. Arkanızda kan ve gözyaşından başka hiçbirşey yok. Siz ve Anglo-Saxon iş ortağınız İngiltere I. Dünya Savaşında petrole dayalı cetvel ile çizilmiş haritalar yapmasa idiniz, o sınırlar belki de doğal hallerine kendiliğinden gelebilirlerdi. Bu nasıl bir ikiyüzlülük ki siz buna rağmen şikayetçi olabiliyorsunuz. Bu coğrafyada akan kanın tek sorumlusu sizsiniz. Lütfen artık masumları oynamayın. Yeryüzünden koskoca bir kültürün izini sildiniz. sadece sizin faşizan filmlerinizde adları kaldı Apaçilerin, Siyuların, Komançilerin... Utanmadan savaş helikopterlerinize bu isimleri veriyorsunuz... Bu haritaları artık siz değiştiremezsiniz. Deneyin ve sonuçlarına katlanın...

[ozgursenocak]

Mr. Ralph Peters,

Turkish people are not invaders on their country for which they have shed their blood and for which they will, if it is under the threat of insolent intentions; but United States of America is an invader on the Red Indians' land and Iraq. It will be right for United States of America to stop the occcupation on Red Indians' land and make border modification in a way that "Free Red Indians' Land" is established and Red Indians are rulers of their country rather than making absurd suggestions about Turkey and Turkey's neighbouring countries which are thousands of kilometers away from you. The Middle East project of United States of America will never progress to reality; but United States of America which is struggling for it to be real will utterly be defeated.

Özgür Şenocak

[Iconia]

Judging from the intellectual capacity of the author, I will tell you right away who the biggest loser is..I always respected the intellect of the senior US armed forces members but now I am beginning to have serious doubts...in fact the war in Iraq shattered my confidence and this has topped it..

Gone are the days citizens of allied countries could count on US vision and integrity. Gone are the days where we would stand by the US unconditionally...

If these ideas are widespread among the decision elite, I have fear and fear and nothing but the fear...

No one should dare to suggest these ridicilous ideas.

It is even more painful to see they come from armed forces members... Keep up the good work, soon you will have to spend billions of dollars again to restore your image...long live US tax payers for picking the tab ...and LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY...

Here is a final advice for this genious: the first rule of the crisis situation: if you are in a hole, stop digging further!!!...People like you dug a freedom hole for the US in Iraq and now continue to drill further...

[Iconia]

Judging from the intellectual capacity of the author, I will tell you right away who the biggest loser is..I always respected the intellect of the senior US armed forces members but now I am beginning to have serious doubts...in fact the war in Iraq shattered my confidence and this has topped it..

Gone are the days citizens of allied countries could count on US vision and integrity. Gone are the days where we would stand by the US unconditionally...

If these ideas are widespread among the decision elite, I have fear and fear and nothing but the fear...

No one should dare to suggest these ridicilous ideas.

It is even more painful to see they come from armed forces members... Keep up the good work, soon you will have to spend billions of dollars again to restore your image...long live US tax payers for picking the tab ...and LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC OF TURKEY...

Here is a final advice for this genious: the first rule of the crisis situation: if you are in a hole, stop digging further!!!...People like you dug a freedom hole for the US in Iraq and now continue to drill further...

[hunulus]

*dear salloum_kr, you have said :

"the map of kurdistan here is wrong, since it show that kurdistan streches from diyarbekir to tabriz. kurdistan streches from meletî, mara$, Sêwa, erzurum, erzincan, to lake urmiye, then south to kirmanshan and loristan. so kurdistan is not like it is shown in the map here."

you are right,kurdistan is not like it is shown there,it has never existed and will never exist. it is just a name on an imaginary map =) but if you really want it, you will have to found that thing not in the NATIONAL BORDERS OF REPUBLIC OF TURKIYE!!! go do it somewhere on the mountains in the northern iraq,

dear seralin, i want to congratulate you on what u said :

"When the population of Latin American citizens in the southern states will exceed the population of White Americans, and when those states wish to join with Mexico or become independent countries, are you really going to wave your hands in a peaceful way?"

i think the author is not brave enough to answer this question =)

one more thing u said :

"I'd like to remind you only two names who are of Kurdish origin and become the two most important leaders in Turkey after Ataturk, Ismet Inonu and Turgut Ozal."

maybe some people dont know these names: they were two of the preidents of turkiye, but özal is responsible for these so called kurdish problems in turkiye. i am glad he died in early times.

i know many people who are kurds but if they are from different regions,when they come together, they cannot understand each other if they speak their language. so how can they come together as a "nation" ?=) and govern themselves if they cannot get help from those stupid ones in the usa ? sure they will become their puppets sooner or later=)

so i strongly recommend those some idiot kurdish friends HERE that they should stop talking nonsense and continue living in peace here in TURKIYE !!!

* dear icigsar , you said :

"I say that Turkey's border must stretch to Musul, Kerkuk, Tebriz, because all of these cities are Turks!!!"

but this is not enough=) the borders must stretch to china and france and hungary since the people living between these countries are all turks! so maybe we can invade usa and kick them out of our borthers' - Native Americans- land =) native Americans are turks, too.

*dear scioto, you said:

"It would be wise to start with giving the south of California and Texas to Mexico ,for example. The tip of Florida could go to Cuba. Parts of Montana, Wyoming and Dakotas could go to a Free Land of Original Settlers. Wisconsin could handle a Free German State of North America. New York should be an independent city state governed by UN."

you are great! you ended the argument here =) hey peters! are you there?=)

*dear diyako, you said:

"If your country so secure so democratic, why you barking like dogs!! What is scaring you!!!… only Kurdistan remain with Mustafa kemal betrayal and replacing Lozan agreement with server in 1923."

it was not a betrayal you idiot!!! it was a rise against the enemies's games on TURKIYE =) GO KISS EUROPEAN CONTRIES ASSES SO THAT THEY HELP YOU =)

AND WE ARE NOT DOGS! WE ARE HUMAN MY MAN ,BUT IF YOU STILL THINK SO,THEN YOU ARE BEARS DOOMED TO LIVE ON THE MOUNTAINS =) SELDOM COMING TO TOWN FOR FOOD =)

*dear CEYHUN , you said :

"All The PROBLEMS IN TEH WORLD HAS A CHRISTIAN WHITE ROOT "

this is true and you see noone here dares to oppose this =)

[sardar]

with my smoking english
in kurdistan kerkuk town .we had one turk-man as we are saying in kurdish turkuman .this man had always nothing to say and nothing to do and in the personality he was a chip man thats why we didnt had interessant what this man had ever did , but one day he breaked the glass windows of our school and i told my father whats wrong with him ? my father told me in old kurdish spoken when somebody is chip in the vieliage then thay will go and make ---- on the vieliage street till every body is saying oh which idiot did that ----, so now the chip man is proud of his ---- because we have all asked after his name because of his ---- ,and it was hes dream people to know him .then my father told me thats why this ( turkuman )man is doing the same ---- and break the glasses of that school .! so people look now turks writers or lets say turks rigim are exactly like this ( turkuman ) man ,thay are chip and they are history is exactly ---- like this ( turkuman ) man ----s who did ---- on the viliage street so nobody care about them and the middle east borders must changed ,so now they are trying to make fun of kurdish nation means they are playing with fire ! but lieave them dream like that it giving us more power !we believe that they are nothing and chip and not strong thats why we are not useing the same words what they are useing to make fun of our nation !but we are just fighting for freedom and we dont need any erth of other nations ! so the turks writers and rigim must to stand up and see the true .! and bileve in dialoge because what turks writers and rigim knows is killing and killing and taking a big stone means that ur not going to use and ur the loser the world is in 2006 not in kemal time must give up then they will stay in a chip life like the turkuman man and will lose plety of blood !!!
info >>> when i say chip its only to turks writers and rigim who dont accept kurds human rights i respect all human nations even turks and think all kurdish people are believe in it ! so say yes for freedom !
by sardar star

[uratM]

To the ones who can understand my smoking English :D

First of all this colonel is dreaming and does not have any relation with U.S army by now.

In Iraq, Kerkuk Town, we used to have 3.000.000 Turks, as we say in Turkish; Türk and 50.000 barbarians, as we say in Turkish; Kürt. These kürds had always nothing to say, nothing to do except eating, ****ing and selling eroin.

One day Saddam named dictator, attacked Kuwait for petrolium, to cure his economy and democracy commiting U.S.A, declared war on Saddam.

As the war started, about 2 million Kürts who had already fled from Iraq entered TURQIA. However Turks gave them any kind of aid while U.S was taking care of 30 Kurds after checking their teeth and other parts of body like nazis in 1930-1945.

At the end of the war Saddam's forces were prohibited to go further North from 36.th parallel and "Poised Hammer" named troops stayed there to insure this paragraph.

However, in Poised Hammer Troops' area there were terorists naming themselves as Marxist and however again our marxist terorists were killing Turk and Kurd civilians in Turqia and however again their supply roads were being hold by our Poised troops. They must have been gathering food and weapons from UFO's. Still goes on.anyway

One day Poised Hammer Troops left Turk compact areas which were norther than 36th parallel including musul and Türks were massacered by Saddam's Troops and before Saddam came, barbarians under command of Barzani and Talabani named dictators had fled.

However despite Kurds having weapons from U.S.A, TURKS got only hope from U.S.A. One day, democracy commiting U.S.A, has come to the area with those barbarian dictators.

As barbarians came to Kerkük, they directly went to LAND REGISTER OFICE and POPULATION REGISTER OFFICE. However they opened fire on TüRKS waiting to congratulate Americans for SADDAM's fall.Kürts (barbarians) did not start to throw stones but started to shoot civil servants working in and of course started to destroy any kind of stuff inside.

Well, let's think that our barbarians named kürtler in Kerkük are over 50.000 so why did they destroy these offices? Would not it be better to keep them safe?Anyway probably ALIENS who brought supply with UFOs told them to shoot.anyway

After that our Kürts started to bring more kürts from other areas of Iraq and started to settle around kerkük, at the same time they started to kill important TURKISH people who want DEMOCRACY and by the way KÜRTS KILLED EVEN BABIES.

After this, Turks in Turqia started to think about UFOs spinning around north iraq and of course about people who are racist.Hate against UFOs increased and of course hate against racist barbarians increased too.

However those Kurds living in North Iraq and killing even babies does not want to know about Kurds living in Turqia who are even being presidents.

Anyway that is not the point.The point is the ones we gave any aid (who were begging us for just only food) at first war are killing TÜRKS now. And accusing them of being antidemocratic. HOWEVER these UFO fans do not have any brain to analize future.

We warn them here, things can go worse than past, so be human. Analize past, they were looking at your teeth. In future who can quarantee somebody will not shoot you from your teeth?

WHOEVER YOU ARE, DONT FORGET ; YOUR DIAMETER CAN NOT BE LARGER THAN 7.65 SO BE HUMAN

[uratM]

Of COURSE YOU SHOULD BEHAVE AS YOU WISH, :D

[hunulus]

my friends,

lets end this argument opened by someone who doesnt know anything about the area and is not brave enough to come here and answer all the criticism...i think he is one of those agents staying at his desk and putting forward something stupid and analyze people's ideas .... =)

we,as TURKS, and with those who consider themselves as Turks, will not give any part of our land within our national borders. If someone wants to found a country somewhere,he should be sure that it wont be within our national borders,so they shouldnt claim land!!! ıf they were strong enough,they would have their own land by now... so they wouldnt kill babies!!!! and become terrorists!!!! there is plenty of land in Africa u know, you can do whatever you like to,and change borders there easily....

but noone can change our national borders!

if there is someone who is not happy in TURKIYE,he should "go and live" in another country! this is the solution without any blood! if he still demands land from this country,we are ready to fight against and kick them out of this land like we did to greeks in the war of independence =)

[kutadgu]

Dear Ralph,

We have seen that you have excellent ideas to provide a better life for the people on the earth. I kindly ask for your help to create some plans to build countries for the following people listed below. We would appriciate if you can help us by providing your plan which includes pre and post map of the counties you propose.

1. A country for ~800,000 (10 % of total population) Turkish People living in Bulgaira
2. A country for Cyprus Turks (20 % of total population)
3. A country for 3.000.000 Turkish people living in Europe (If you can arrange a place in France or in Spain it would be nice, we will be coordinating to move people to the final destination)
4. Two countries for the Russian People living in Antalya, Turkey and Trabzon Turkey
5. A country for the Morroccan Community living in Brussels, Belgium.

You can also split Italy into two part as North and South. Do not forget to divide Flanders and Wallonia of Belgium. Consider Spain and also Irish People.

Since your focus on our region, I have listed some example in our region. But I believe you will provide perfects plans for USA and Canada also.

Looking forward to hear on the plans and maps. We are ready to move just tell us our new countries.

Thansk and Best Regards,

Sincerly

Kutadgu.

[alkaline]

we watched when American gi-joe's (soldiers) when crying on the T.V. when afghans catched them in thier ship in iran boarders or somewhere else its not the point and talking about. they were saying "we are not soldiers pleasee leave us, we get money from our country to come here" and they are crying :lol: so funny :lol::lol::lol:... NOW LOOK ANY TURKİSH SOLDIER EYES, DO YOU THINK WE CRY IN THAT POSITION. WE FIGHT WITH HONOR!!! AND SHOW NO MERCY!!!

[SuddenDiscontent]

This article is a joke, right? Sure, some borders in the Middle East may not be perfect, but let's start at the biggest abomination of them all - Israel. England might have blown it drawing out Iraq, but carving Israel out of the Middle East was the West's biggest blunder of all. You conveniently chose to ignore this mistake, but your "better looking" Middle East map should have Israel replaced with a larger Palestine, and you know it. Their only claim to the land now is that they fought for it harder than the Palestinians did.

And for giving a chunk of Turkey to the Kurds? FORGET IT. Turks fought for their land too and they deserve it. Very few Middle Eastern countries can make that claim, and maybe a good civil war or two will clean up their border issues. There is nothing to fear in a civil war - except meddling from foreign powers. Just look at the US. Can you imagine what the US borders would like now if Europe had intervened in our own bloody civil war?

[ortac]

8 more Turkish soldiers has passed away.. For what ? I m not sure that you can undestand but all TURKS can understand. They passed away to protect the borders of the most beautiful land of the world. The land that all your eyes look for. But please bu sure , you will only be able to look... You will Come and visit and say what a beautiful, what a special part of earth... Economically, politically, there is no any other land than TURKS soil. This soil has been watered by our grandfathers blood and still being watered by our brothers' blood.
If anybody dares to take a stone from TURK territory, then he will have the same end like his grandpa's had. History repeats..

GOD SAVE THE TURK
ALLAH TÜRK'Ü KORUSUN

[sardar]

hey mangolian people why ur people are so idiot !! ? dont u know
the true one is always winer ,so mangolian people stop crying ,and know we call (usa) solderis ( freedom fighter ) so ( diyarbekir ) ( mehabad )(qamishlo )we come soon !!! ---- of ms kemal and mangolian racist ,yes for freedom yes for a big kurdistan yes for kurdland !!!

[bezgin]

President Turgut Ozal was in a conversation with a foreign president.


Foreign President asks: Mr. Ozal, can you tell me what is the percentage of Bosnians in Turkey?

He answers: 100%

FP: Chechnians?

Ozal: 100%

FP: Kurds?

Ozal: 100%




We are one nation. We are one. You will not be able to divide us.

[nahhh]

hey mangolian people why ur people are so idiot !! ? dont u know
the true one is always winer ,so mangolian people stop crying ,and know we call (usa) solderis ( freedom fighter ) so ( diyarbekir ) ( mehabad )(qamishlo )we come soon !!! ---- of ms kemal and mangolian racist ,yes for freedom yes for a big kurdistan yes for kurdland !!!


You show how ignorance you are. I think you would better not to talk in here anymore because at least you give an idea how kurdish people look like. You contunie to say hello to "freedom fighthers" This is the typical behavior of Kurdish people. Once you see someone coming superior than US. I'm sure you will sell your soul to this.

Lastly, take care your words that you are using here. Dont answer me because I'll ignore your all messages. We are not the same level. Take away your "smokin english" and get out!

[uratM]

:D a sardine ---- spoke.Sardine you r a nut head and u will soon understand that u r a nut head.

Wait nut head wait

[nahhh]

President Turgut Ozal was in a conversation with a foreign president.


Foreign President asks: Mr. Ozal, can you tell me what is the percentage of Bosnians in Turkey?


This is the quotation for whom may care. The president of Turkiye, Mr. Ozal was Kurd! He had governed this country over 5 years!! Even now, there lots and lots of Kurdish people in the goverment who say I'm Turk!

Anyway we are talking for nothing. If you want our borders come and get it! We are ready to die for this glorious land as we did in the past!

[sardar]

to nahhh and all nahhhs >>> do u know how is pain full when somebody is not leting u to speak ur mom language in ur own home ..... !!!? idiot do u know how is pain full when somebody is not leting u to use ur own clothes in ur own home ....!!!?idiot do u know how is pain full when somebody kills ur father small brother because they want to have they are own home and freedom !!!idiot if i come to ur home and say out here u idiot here is my home not urs and if i even leted u to stay i will be the boss and tell u that ur not allowed to speak ur mom language in ur own home ...idiot what u wanna do if somebody did all that to u and ur people !!!??? so look now u idiot we as kurdish nation have such situation in north kurdistan in our own home with such idiot people like u !when ur people comeing from mangolia to our own home and telling us that kurdistan is mangolistan and out here........!!!?so what shuold we do u idiot .can u say its not true ?idiot do u think we are tiorst like mangolian people in kurdistan idiot we are borened in this erth and we are ready to die for that erth !!so if i tell white black and tell black white then i will accept that am idiot .but u nahhh and people like u are exactly like that ur people dont accept the truth ! thats why i could say that u did accept that ur a big idiot ....but we are not worry because we do believe that the true one is always winer !!! and soon kemalisim dreams will sell tomata in mangolistan .....yes for freedom yes for a big kurdistan yes for kurdland .......!

[uratM]

Ahahahha Its not true,
Nuthead as i said, do whatever you want but dont piss other ppl
Just do what you want
And asshole before you, we were here, lmao
You will soon suck mongolian dicks again
Just wait, i know you are a horny gurl, but you must wait a bit ahahahha
Go to North Iraq and join the gang, then wait for us.
I know you live in Turkia and dont have any ass to fight

I know it will be hard for you but try to fight and stop yelling and see what we do to the traitors hahahahhah

Kurds are suckers since1700s since you appaer in history. hahahha do your job and suck again.

God has created you for sucking mongolian balls lol so do your job :D

[sardar]

nahhh forgot something ...how many times kurdish freedom fighters wrote to turkish soldats to stop the war , how many times kurdish partys in north kurdistan told turks rigim to stop the war and said we dont want war we believ in dialog ....ofcourse so many times but idiot we didnt even get the answer ....! so see now ,then we believed that turkish rigim is really racist and idiot thats why i have to use idiot words to idiot people like u ,and if it was even god---nahhh a small qustion ,example ur in istambul and kemals donky run away or did something bad so would u go and start dialog with kemals donky ? so which words shuold i use to u when u werent human and didnt what to hear and didnt want to see the truth and believed killing children ? tell me which words shuold i use ? i love human black white and respect all nations and love them !i love people how could understand and see the truth !our problems is with turkish rigim and idiot writers like u not with all turkish people ,some of turkish people believe in our way but they are afreid to say it becuase of a racist rigim,,,, so say yes the true one is always winer and say yes for freedom for a big kurdistan and kurdland .....

[sardar]

with my smoking english
dont worry am not going to use the same words like u because ur idiot like nahhh ,if i do u same words then i will be chip like u ,chip people useing a chip words hahahah am not makeing fun of turkish nation dont worry am not so chip like u but i do make fun of person example ( ms kemal ata mangoly )
hahahah kemal ata mangoly hahahahahahhaha and just for info
am comeing from suoth kurdistan and live in germany-koln

[uratM]

Do your job, suck ma mongolian ballz :D

[sardar]

QUOTE uratM >>>sardar you r a nut head ,Wait nut head wait

as i said chip people use the chip words nut people see everybody nut
Ahahahh but u can try and come well u will see what am .
so say yes for freedom and big kurdistan -out racist and mangolian

[uratM]

Ok then, genius mussolini, do your job, suck german balls :D

[ortac]

i understand that you live in Germany.. Which of your identification is valid in Germany ? Do the German guvernment knows you and your family as TURK or as IRAQIAN or as IRANIAN ? You live there over TURK identity, you take the good living advantages from the TURK reality not from your KURD iidentity!
YOU never understand the matter.
I know that you are a teenager without education, far away from religion, without a job... If you have any of these properties, you wouldn't talk like this.
KURDS can live only if TURK exists!! dont forget this truth..
PRAY FOR ATATURK EVERYTIME YOU GO TO BED AT NIGHT. PRAY HIM FOR NOT GENOSIDING YOU! HE IS THE ONE WHO LET KURDS LIVE IN TURKLAND..

GOD SAVE THE TURK
ALLAH TÜRK'Ü KORUSUN

[ILKER]

Do you know the origin of Turks?

It appears that a foolish man drew this map. You can only continue to draw the map between your legs.

[Anti-Yankee]

Hey Yankees!!!!. Do you have that much big and strong ass to capture our Turkland? Do you think that we, honored Turks, will escape from you like Iraqians? We will kick your ass or anybodies ass from our Turkiye if you try to put one of your step inside.

Tanri Turku Korusun!

[icigsar]

[QUOTE=sardar]says "hey mangolian people why ur people are so idiot !! ? "

You are so idiot and ropy ones that not to replay. Hey birdbrained, you cannot take Mustafa Kemal's name to your dirty mouth.

[sardar]

with my smoking english
mangolian writers and rigim are going to lose,look now freedom fighters are in suoth kurdistan and mangolian imprialisim want to go and start war there .but the us spoker in mangolia told the mangolian rigim to becarefull because us beleive that that is not the end of problem kurdish problem is international problem,so now they lost thats why they are crying and use a chip words,a words that nobody care about.so u mangolian people do u know how is pain full when somebody is not leting u to speak ur mom language in ur own home ..... !!!? idiot do u know how is pain full when somebody is not leting u to use ur own clothes in ur own home ....!!!?idiot do u know how is pain full when somebody kills ur father small brother because they want to have they are own home and freedom !!!idiot if i come to ur home and say out here u idiot here is my home not urs and if i even leted u to stay i will be the boss and tell u that ur not allowed to speak ur mom language in ur own home ...idiot what u wanna do if somebody did all that to u and ur people !!!??? so look now u idiot we as kurdish nation have such situation in north kurdistan in our own home with such idiot people like u !when ur people comeing from mangolia to our own home and telling us that kurdistan is mangolistan and out here........!!!?so what shuold we do u idiot .can u say its not true ?idiot do u think we are tiorst like mangolian people in kurdistan idiot we are borened in this erth and we are ready to die for that erth !!so if i tell white black and tell black white then i will accept that am idiot .but u nahhh and people like u are exactly like that ur people dont accept the truth ! thats why i could say that u did accept that ur a big idiot ....but we are not worry because we do believe that the true one is always winer !!! look u people cant accept it all then means that mangolian rigim and writers are fashisim and loser thats why they are using a chip words as they are chip! but we do bileive that us will help us to build a frre big kurdistan as it show in the map,and soon ms kemalisim dreams will sell tomata in mangolistan .....say yes for freedom yes for a big kurdistan yes for kurdland .......!

[sardar]

with my smoking englsih
stop useing chip words its not dialog language,it just show that u writers are idiot and fashism and loser !!!
we come soon stop crying !
genosid and gas kimikal in suoth kurdistan did not stop our fighting
u idiot people with a chip words think we will stop fighting ? hahahahaah kurd and kurdistan is kurd and kurdistan if its in north or west or suoth or east!
and just for info freedom fighters in suoth kurdistan just some mettrs far from us soldat and they have the same city to buy cigeret ,,,,,hahaha and
kemals sons are crying hahahahhaha 8 imprialism mangolian soldat are deth last week but not in south kurdistan but in north kurdistan why u mangolian dont finish them they are in diyarbekir go and kill them Aahhaah

say yes for freedom !
say yes for Independent kurdland!
out racist & mangolian kemalism!
after a dark world after genosid and kimikal gas mediyan generation are still alive so dont worry diyarbekir mehabad khamishlo we coom soon as we are
on the way !!!

[hunulus]

[QUOTE=sardar]to nahhh and all nahhhs >>> do u know how is pain full when somebody is not leting u to speak ur mom language in ur own home ..... !!!? idiot do u know how is pain full when somebody is not leting u to use ur own clothes in ur own home ....!!!?idiot do u know how is pain full when somebody kills ur father small brother because they want to have they are own home and freedom !!!idiot if i come to ur home and say out here u idiot here is my home not urs and if i even leted u to stay i will be the boss and tell u that ur not allowed to speak ur mom language in ur own home

ARE YOU AN IDIOT MY MAN? IN TURKIYE YOU CAN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE YOU WANT TO SPEAK!! WHO PREVENTS THIS? IF YOU DONT SPEAK IT,IT IS YOUR CHOICE,FURHTERMORE YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE JUST OPENED AND JUST CLOSED KURDISH COURSES BECAUSE NOONE WANTS TO LEARN YOUR MADE UP LANGUAGE =)

WHO PREVENTS YOU FROM WEARING THE CLOTHES U WANT!!! DO NOT MISGUIDE THE PEOPLE HERE FROM OUT OF TURKIYE!!! THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW IN FACT!!! LYING IS YOUR FAVOURITE TO REACH YOUR AIMS!!!

YOUR HOME IS NOT WITHIN THE NATIONAL BORDERS OF TURKIYE!!! SO IF YOU DEMAND LAND WITH GUNS,DEATH IS INEVITABLE!!! AND I WILL NOT HESITATE TO KILL YOU IF YOU DO SUCH THING!!!

BUT IF YOU SAY YOU WANNA LIVE PEACEFULLY IN THIS COUNTY WITH US,YOU ARE WELCOME OF COURSE!!! BUT DO NOT DEMAND LAND! I REPEAT! DO NOT DEMAND LAND!!!

[hunulus]

[QUOTE=sardar]nahhh forgot something ...how many times kurdish freedom fighters wrote to turkish soldats to stop the war , how many times kurdish partys in north kurdistan told turks rigim to stop the war and said we dont want war we believ in dialog ....ofcourse so many times but idiot we didnt even get the answer ....!

BE CAREFUL YOU IDIOT!!! WHEN DID YOU DEMAND THOSE THINGS!!! ONLY WHEN U LOST PKK TERRORISTS AND YOUR WEAPONS!!! AND YOU STARTED THAT WAR KILLING BABIES AND SOLDIERS!!! NOT US!!! DONT YOU REMEMBER ALL THESE YOU IDIOT!!

NOW YOUR PKK TERRORISTS STARTED TO KILL OUR SOLDIERS,WE DIDNT START IT ,SO YOU WILL BEG US TO STOP "PLEASE I DONT WANNA DIE,OHHH PLEASE!!! BECAUSE U R COWARD!!!! BUT OUT SOLDIERS DIE WITH HONOR EVEN IF YOU TORTURE THEM!!!

[hunulus]

You Should Know About The Well Known Fact That When Three Kurds From Different Regions Come Together,they Cannot Understand Each Other! This Shows That You Are Not A Nation But A Big Group Of People!

Suppose That You Found Your Dream Country,how Will People Understand Each Other? Ha? You Should Have One The Same History,one The Same Language And Many Things More But You Have None =)

[sardar]

with my smoking english

idiot show me in north kurdistan kurdish school .where is kurdish school in north kurdistan u idiot ? tell me ....u did wrote about freedom fighters( PKK )
ok as we know al-Qahida is a tirorist organisation grupe and they are every where forbidden but pkk have a big stition in europ or lets say roj tv .rojtv belong to ( PKK ) and its not forbidden its just in danimark and everybody knows that it belong to ( PKK ) when ( PKK ) is a tirorist then they will be forbidden everywhere! many times mangolian rigim tried to close ( ROJTV ) but they lost like always and rojtv is still running ( THANKS DANIMARK ) OK usa puted ( PKK ) in tirorist list and we hope that usa look after this wrong poleitic! we know that that was just a small stratigik between usa and mangolian rigim but that stratigik is not any more and when we get our freehome we will be the best believer country in middle east for usa , and we believe that soon usa will remove ( PKK ) in tirorist list >>> but ( PKK ) just by name is in tirorist list so look now in south kurdistan freedom fighters and usa soldat are just some mettrs far from each other and they have the same shop to buy cigeret ...Ahahahahah ( PKK ) have more then 600 stistion in europ and they are not forbidden !!! how could u say that pkk is tirorist look at rojtv Ahahahahahah...ur really idiot please go and sell tomata in mangolia Ahahahahha if u want i can give u all pkk ,s organitation Addres in eruop.so
idiot even now we cant use (NEWROZ ) word because theres no ( W ) in mangolian language .....u idiot mangolian why do u lie ? do u think people will belive in u when u say that we as kurdish cant understan each other idiot its just dialeckt ,then we are all one !!!!!!example look at germany we have ( hoch deutsch and plat deutsch ) and we can understan each othere but we have also general language for the whole germany ,and that general language was boren after nazi time .and after mangolian imprialism time we will also have a general language for the whole kurdistan as now we are trying to do it in suoth kurdistan .....!!!
say yes for freedom !!!
our racist mangolian !
just for info >>>>>Ahahahaha http://www.roj.tv

[sardar]

[QUOTE=hunulus>BE CAREFUL YOU IDIOT!!! Ahahahah why shuold i becarfull ?
just for info

SARDAR STAR